Discussion:
Csound
(too old to reply)
Udo Giacomozzi
1999-02-09 14:20:01 UTC
Permalink
Many people in this list write about Csound or Matlab and sound routines for
it?
Could please someone explain me what these programs do or where I can find
more information about them?
It seems for me that it's a programming language for just sound - what are
the advantages? Can they do realtime DSP?

Thanks
Udo Giacomozzi

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Luis M Vicente
1999-02-09 15:43:48 UTC
Permalink
Take a look by yourself

http://www.mathworks.com/products/matlab/mldsp.shtml

I did a lot of things in Matlab... like

1.- Common filtering
2.- Adaptive filtering: Visualizing LMS errors bidimensional and
tridimensional, I would never had understood that without those drawings. "I
lived them"
3.- Neural Networks
4.- FFT, Z transforms and some easy stuff just to "see" how it works and
have a clear idea of that frequency world!!!
5.- Even Mothern Control Theory with those symbol matrices of state
variables. I could get very easy the inverse of a matrix in symbolic before
plugin the values... saved me hours and hours of calculator and errors just
by writting a little program to do that.
6.- My thesis, related with EEG mu_rhythm collapse when preparing movement,
I could do some space temporal studies and get and Idea of all those stuff.
Just read my publications on IEEE. Never done without the help of Matlab

Vicente L.M., Barreto A.B., and Taberner A.M., “DSP Removal of
Respiratory Trend
in Photoplethysmographic Blood Volume Pulse Measurements”. IEEE
Southeastcon ‘96,
Tampa, Florida, USA, April 11-14, 1996.

Barreto A.B., Taberner A.M. and Vicente L.M., “Classification of
Spatio-Temporal
EEG Readiness Potentials Towards the Development of a Brain-Computer
Interface”.
IEEE Southeastcon ‘96, Tampa, Florida, USA, April 11-14, 1996.

Vicente L.M., Barreto A.B., and Taberner A.M., “Adaptive
Pre-Processing of
Photoplethysmographic Blood Volume Pulse Measurements”. 15th
Southern Biomedical
Engineering Conference, Dayton, Ohio, USA, March 29-31, 1996.

Barreto A.B., Taberner A.M. and Vicente L.M., “Neural Network
Classification of
Spatio-Temporal EEG Readiness”. 15th Southern Biomedical Engineering
Conference,
Dayton, Ohio, USA, March 29-31, 1996.

Barreto A.B., Vicente L.M. and Persad I.K., “Adaptive Cancellation
of Motion Artifact
in Photoplethysmographic Blood Volume Pulse Measurements for
Exercise Evaluation”.
17th Annual International Conference of the IEEE Engineering in
Medicine and Biology
Society, Montreal, Canada, September 20-23, 1995.

Barreto A.B., Vicente L.M. and Persad I.K., “Spatio-Temporal EEG
Patterns Associated
With Voluntary Motion Preparation”. 17th Annual International
Conference of the IEEE
Engineering in Medicine and Biology Society, Montreal, Canada,
September 20-23, 1995.

Sorry for the lack of modesty... but I have to sell myself!!!!!

======================================================
Luis M. Vicente 280 Edwards Pl
Music Rock&Pirate Yonkers, NY 10703
mailto:***@AOL.com mailto:***@Yahoo.com
http://www.fiu.edu/~lvicen01
Home Tel.:1.914.476.0627
Work Tel.:1.914.966.0600 x344
======================================================
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 9:20 AM
Subject: Csound
Many people in this list write about Csound or Matlab and sound
routines for
it?
Could please someone explain me what these programs do or where I can find
more information about them?
It seems for me that it's a programming language for just sound - what are
the advantages? Can they do realtime DSP?
Thanks
Udo Giacomozzi
--
dupswapdrop: the music-dsp mailing list and website
http://shoko.calarts.edu/~glmrboy/musicdsp/music-dsp.html
dupswapdrop: the music-dsp mailing list and website
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Benjamin GOLINVAUX
1999-02-09 16:40:37 UTC
Permalink
BTW...

CSound is open source...

Info at http://www.leeds.ac.uk/music/Man/c_front.html

Matlab (www.mathworks.com) is not free...

However, it there is a free alternative at

http://www.che.wisc.edu/octave/

Ciao.





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Richard Dobson
1999-02-09 16:37:27 UTC
Permalink
Yes, it's a 'acoustic compiler'. Advantages: well it always depends, but
you get a huge (and ever-increasing) set of unit generators ranging from
the basics up to the elaborate (granular and formant synthesis,
waveguides, pvoc, etc). It can and is running in real-time, given a fast
enough PC. It is available on a wide range of platforms, and there is a
very active discussion group.

Csound 'Front Page' :
http://mitpress.mit.edu/e-books/csound/frontpage.html

Also go to John fitch's page (he maintains the canonical sources, among
oodles of other things), and follow up the Csound refernces:
http://www.bath.ac.uk/~masjpf/home.html

Richard Dobson
Post by Udo Giacomozzi
Many people in this list write about Csound or Matlab and sound routines for
it?
Could please someone explain me what these programs do or where I can find
more information about them?
It seems for me that it's a programming language for just sound - what are
the advantages? Can they do realtime DSP?
Thanks
Udo Giacomozzi
--
Test your DAW with my Soundcard Attrition Page!
http://wkweb5.cableinet.co.uk/rwd
CDP homepage: http://www.bath.ac.uk/~masjpf/CDP/CDP.htm

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Benjamin GOLINVAUX
1999-02-09 16:35:02 UTC
Permalink
:Many people in this list write about Csound or Matlab and sound routines
for
:it?
:Could please someone explain me what these programs do or where I can find
:more information about them?
:It seems for me that it's a programming language for just sound - what are
:the advantages? Can they do realtime DSP?
:
:Thanks
:Udo Giacomozzi



Basically, Matlab is a generic matrix computation engine...

It has built-in algorithms for many dataset-related operations such as FFT,
matrix inversion, LU decomposition,... Its functionalities are numerous...

for example, you can design a filter by "drawing" the freq response and
fixing, for example, the number of taps... The solution is then a vector of
coeff. representing the filter.

Matlab has a built-in math language with emphasis on matrix algebra... It
don't perform quite as fast as Fortran or C++ but it's a good interpreted
(compiled on the fly ????) language, I think...

IMHO, It CANT do any real-time operations... But it can do off-line audio
and video data processing...

CSound (I never used it) is a sound processing engine ONLY. It has many many
opcodes that can treat audio data (incl. freq. domain analysis)

What I know of it is that you have to provide .sco (score) and .orc
(orchestra) text files for score and instruments definition and then let the
program compute the resulting sound.

There _is_ a real-time version of CSound, at least for Win32...

I think there is also a brand new real-time version of csound that uses ALSA
on Linux...

Benjamin.



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Phil Burk
1999-02-09 16:53:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Udo Giacomozzi
Many people in this list write about Csound or Matlab and sound routines for
it?
Could please someone explain me what these programs do or where I can find
more information about them?
CSound is a sound synthesis language that is very widely used and runs
on most machines. There are real time versions for some machines. Full
info at the CSound home page:

http://www.leeds.ac.uk/music/Man/c_front.html
--
Phil Burk
SoftSynth.com
mailto:***@softsynth.com
http://www.softsynth.com

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pete moss
1999-02-09 18:08:47 UTC
Permalink
As a heavy user of csound, maybe i can answer your questions. i dont however
know about matlab. i thought it was a graphing prog or something. maybe
someone else can help you with that one.
so anyway, yes, csound is a language designed just for sound synthesis. it can
run in realtime, provided your computer is fast enough. ADI even has a realtime
dsp chip using csound in the works. dont know much about that though. source
code for csound is freely available and is based on code and ideas going back to
max matthews (and many others). check at:
http://mitpress.mit.edu/e-books/csound/frontpage.html
there is also a mailing list for csound. i think there is info on it from the
mit page. but beware, antiorp hangs out over there too :)

pete
Post by Udo Giacomozzi
Many people in this list write about Csound or Matlab and sound routines for
it?
Could please someone explain me what these programs do or where I can find
more information about them?
It seems for me that it's a programming language for just sound - what are
the advantages? Can they do realtime DSP?
Thanks
Udo Giacomozzi
--
dupswapdrop: the music-dsp mailing list and website
http://shoko.calarts.edu/~glmrboy/musicdsp/music-dsp.html
dupswapdrop: the music-dsp mailing list and website
http://shoko.calarts.edu/~glmrboy/musicdsp/music-dsp.html
Sean Costello
1999-02-09 19:25:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by pete moss
so anyway, yes, csound is a language designed just for sound synthesis. it can
run in realtime, provided your computer is fast enough. ADI even has a realtime
dsp chip using csound in the works.
Sean Costello
1999-02-09 21:10:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by pete moss
so anyway, yes, csound is a language designed just for sound synthesis. it can
run in realtime, provided your computer is fast enough. ADI even has a realtime
dsp chip using csound in the works.
Richard Dobson
1999-02-09 22:45:13 UTC
Permalink
The thing to remember about the ADI card is that it is designed as a
development system for OEMs to create black-box systems, not as a
'soundcard' as such. It is going down a storm for karaoke machines, by
all accounts. It will only become a soundcard in the conventional sense
if a manufacturer takes up the design - that very much remains to be
seen! ADI recently announced that a multi-sharc version has been
prepared 'for a customer'. Perhaps now the Creamware PULSAR has been
launched, companies might be interested in making a cheaper (but still
powerful) competitor using XTCsound?

My personal suspicion is that the ADI card is now too little, too late;
which is a pity, bacuae it could have been made into something really
special.

Richard Dobson
Just a clarification on my earlier post: This is not a comment on
Extended Csound as a whole, just the Windows demo card. The less than
optimum performance may be a Windows issue, for all I know. Undoubtedly
commercial products would use multiple SHARCs, in which case the
performance might be excellent. I certainly like the idea of being able
to program DSPs to run Csound (which I already know) in realtime,
instead of having to learn DSP assembler.
Sean Costello
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CDP homepage: http://www.bath.ac.uk/~masjpf/CDP/CDP.htm

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Richard Dobson
1999-02-09 22:51:56 UTC
Permalink
The rumour of antiorp being banned from the Csound list proved to be
premature. But we are a adaptable lot on that list, by and large (all
that 'naive goodwill', I suppose). Maybe it is Csound itself, that sort
of brings it out in you - so much easier that DSP, there is less danger
of 'programming rage'. :-)

er, you have to use a :-) if you are making a joke, otherwise people
don't get it. Does anyone know what the emoticon for irony is?

I didn't even know Steve Martin had made any albums. Does he sing?

Richard Dobson
Uh, antiorp was banned by the list administrator. For "abuse of the
Queen's English" (was I the only person who thought my posting on that
was funny? Didn't anyone here grow up listening to Steve Martin albums?
Sheesh...)
Sean Costello
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--
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http://wkweb5.cableinet.co.uk/rwd
CDP homepage: http://www.bath.ac.uk/~masjpf/CDP/CDP.htm

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Stephan M. Sprenger
1999-02-10 00:10:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Dobson
er, you have to use a :-) if you are making a joke, otherwise people
don't get it. Does anyone know what the emoticon for irony is?
How about :->
Post by Richard Dobson
I didn't even know Steve Martin had made any albums. Does he sing?
No idea, but that was exactly my question...

Stephan M. Sprenger
Director, R&D http://www.prosoniq.com
PROSONIQ PRODUCTS SOFTWARE http://www.sonicworx.com

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Dr. Richard Boulanger
1999-02-09 19:08:44 UTC
Permalink
Phil,

Hope you are well. FYI... The Leeds page is way out of date and filled
with misinformation. Please point people to the New Csound Front Page.

Richard
Post by Phil Burk
Post by Udo Giacomozzi
Many people in this list write about Csound or Matlab and sound routines for
it?
Could please someone explain me what these programs do or where I can find
more information about them?
CSound is a sound synthesis language that is very widely used and runs
on most machines. There are real time versions for some machines. Full
http://www.leeds.ac.uk/music/Man/c_front.html
--
Phil Burk
SoftSynth.com
http://www.softsynth.com
dupswapdrop: the music-dsp mailing list and website
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==================
Dr. Richard Boulanger
Professor - Music Synthesis Department
Berklee College of Music
1140 Boylston Street - Boston, MA 02215-3693
Office Phone: (617) 747-2485 Office Fax: (617) 536-2257
==============================================
Email: ***@earthlink.net OR ***@berklee.edu
Personal Webpage: http://home.earthlink.net/~radiobaton/
The Csound Frontpage: http://mitpress.mit.edu/e-books/csound/frontpage.html
Creating Pages? Tools & Tips:
http://members.tripod.com/~richardboulanger/btot99.html
======================================================================



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Phil Burk
1999-02-10 02:10:50 UTC
Permalink
Hello Richard,
Post by Dr. Richard Boulanger
Hope you are well. FYI... The Leeds page is way out of date and filled
with misinformation. Please point people to the New Csound Front Page.
I tried the "New CSound Front Page" at:

http://mitpress.mit.edu/e-books/csound/frontpage.html

but all I could found was a description of your excellent book. The
Leeds page, on the other hand, has lots of links for downloading CSound
and other resources. But if Leeds is out of date, then I'm open for
other suggestions? I'd like to update my synthesis links page at:

http://www.softsynth.com/musiclinks.html

Phil Burk
SoftSynth.com
mailto:***@softsynth.com
http://www.softsynth.com

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j***@maths.bath.ac.uk
1999-02-10 12:01:23 UTC
Permalink
Phil Burk
1999-02-10 17:03:33 UTC
Permalink
Not only is the Leeds page out of date, but they never change it. My
name has been wrong on it for YEARS and I cannot get it corrected. I
was in receipt of many messages some time back complaining about the
errors but I was unable to get much done.
The MIT pages have much more than just the book. You clearly have not
looked at it for long!
I guess I didn't or I would have figured out that I had to click on a
tiny resolution selector in the top-left corner to see any thing besides
the CSound book! For some reason I didn't interpret "800x600" to mean
"See more links". It's a bit like an adventure game where you have to
feed the parrot in order to get the dungeon door to open. Richard says
they will be updating the MIT CSound page to correct what HE calls a
"design flaw". Hopefully the other info will then be more obvious.
--
Phil Burk
SoftSynth.com
mailto:***@softsynth.com
http://www.softsynth.com

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Dr. Richard Boulanger
1999-02-10 03:35:30 UTC
Permalink
Phil,

Once you click on the correct screen resolution, (to the left of the
screen)... you will find links to everything!

Richard

p.s. My assistant will be changing this design flaw in the next week.
Post by Phil Burk
Hello Richard,
Post by Dr. Richard Boulanger
Hope you are well. FYI... The Leeds page is way out of date and filled
with misinformation. Please point people to the New Csound Front Page.
http://mitpress.mit.edu/e-books/csound/frontpage.html
but all I could found was a description of your excellent book. The
Leeds page, on the other hand, has lots of links for downloading CSound
and other resources. But if Leeds is out of date, then I'm open for
http://www.softsynth.com/musiclinks.html
Phil Burk
SoftSynth.com
http://www.softsynth.com
dupswapdrop: the music-dsp mailing list and website
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Luis M Vicente
1999-02-09 20:55:55 UTC
Permalink
Uh, antiorp was banned by the list administrator. For "abuse of the
Queen's English" (was I the only person who thought my posting on that
was funny? Didn't anyone here grow up listening to Steve Martin albums?
Sheesh...)
Sean Costello
Oh God!!!

I am going to miss him. I started to understand his language and his way of
seeing the world.
I am really sorry, Ok I will do this for him. I hope nobody will get
offended. Is just an old song!!!!

http://www.users.wineasy.se/ludde/lyrics/queen.txt

GOD SAVE THE QUEEN


GOD SAVE THE QUEEN
THE FACIST REGIME
THEY MADE YOU A MORON
POTENTIAL H-BOMB

GOD SAVE THE QUEEN
SHE AINT NO HUMAN BEING
THERE IS NO FUTURE
IN ENGLANDS DREAMING

DON'T BE TOLD WHAT YOU WANT
DON'T BE TOLD WHAT YOU NEED

THERE'S NO FUTURE NO FUTURE
NO FUTURE FOR YOU

GOD SAVE THE QUEEN
WE MEAN IT MAN
WE LOVE OUR QUEEN
GOD SAVES

GOD SAVE THE QUEEN
'COS TOURISTS ARE MONEY
OUR FIGURE HEAD
IS NOT WHAT SHE SEEMS

OH GOD SAVE HISTORY
GOD SAVE YOUR MAD PARADE
OH LORD GOD HAVE MERCY
ALL CRIMES ARE PAID

WHEN THERE'S NO FUTURE
HOW CAN THERE BE SIN
WE'RE THE FLOWERS IN THE DUSTBIN
WE'RE THE POISON IN YOUR HUMAN MACHINE
WE'RE THE FUTURE YOU'RE FUTURE

GOD SAVE THE QUEEN
WE MEAN IT MAN
WE LOVE OUR QUEEN
GOD SAVES

GOD SAVE THE QUEEN
WE MEAN IT MAN
AND THERE IS NO FUTURE
IN ENGLANDS DREAMING

NO FUTURE NO FUTURE
NO FUTURE FOR YOU
NO FUTURE NO FUTURE
NO FUTURE NO FUTURE FOR ME

NO FUTURE NO FUTURE
NO FUTURE FOR YOU
NO FUTURE NO FUTURE FOR YOU


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Hans Mikelson
1999-02-10 00:25:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by pete moss
so anyway, yes, csound is a language designed just for sound synthesis.
it can
Post by pete moss
run in realtime, provided your computer is fast enough. ADI even has a
realtime
Post by pete moss
dsp chip using csound in the works.
Per Byrne Villez
1997-03-31 12:38:59 UTC
Permalink
In terms of sound, you can do anything with Csound. It is unlimitedly
flexible. It supports just about anykind of proccesing, and if it doesn't
you can add your own. It is platform independent and is free.Check the
Csound site. The language is a cross between 'c' and an weird assembler. A
Csound bible is going to released soon. Worth checking out.
per

Per,
I am a veteran Csound user and contributer.
I never looked at or used Csound. What sort of fun things could you do with it?
Pluk
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